0000013093 00000 n With a twin, repeat with the other pick-up. 0000007301 00000 n After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F . [5], The first person to develop the idea of a high-tension magneto was Andr Boudeville,[citation needed] but his design omitted a condenser (capacitor). downloadable drawings for those of you who Your mag likely has a bad condensor. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any The timing marks should not wander with the RPM of the drill. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. I'll try the 3/16" gap test. Ensure that you have the proper gasket fitted. Not quite as large as ideal, but simple. Put it on bike, timed, no spark. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. With Lucas devices, the fixing hole at one end of the contact-breaker spring is slotted so that the effective length of the spring can be adjusted as necessary. Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. It's easy! We can adapt for most applications. Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! Electrical - Armature windings, Condenser, Slip ring, Points and Bushes. and just how were you able to find one of those bastards that still worked?!?!?! [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. However, typical signs of magneto problems are, among others: -- Bike hard to start. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. If the brass is black, it indicates that the brush(es) are too soft and/or years of neglect. The air gap between the rotor and the cap actually increases spark output as long as it's not excessive. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. Please phone or email for details. Great photos, quality! 0000001184 00000 n capacitance to satisfactory ignition system One or more times per revolution, just as the magnet pole moves away from the coil and the magnetic flux begins to decrease, a cam opens the contact breaker (called "the points" in reference to the two points of a circuit breaker) and interrupts the current. If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. unfortunately the repair did not work as the Coil did not work so it had to be sent to rewinding. Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ignition_magneto&oldid=1150712364, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2023, Articles needing additional references from January 2023, All articles needing additional references, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 19 April 2023, at 18:38. wish to make the required puller tool Trademark Office. Coil may still function somewhat and not completely failed but ratio of turns lost because of insulation breakdown. Great write up, with video even! 0000001913 00000 n Grease. After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. Links to some interesting If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. 0000001320 00000 n Take a look 0000005012 00000 n Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in one and then the other of the the plug caps. The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. 1. Disassemble the advance/retard mechanism carefully noting which part goes where. The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty. Sign up for a new account in our community. is it rebuilt? At atmospheric pressure, the voltage required to strike a spark across the 0.020 (0.5 mm) gap of a sparking plug is far less than the voltage required at the elevated pressure that the plug experiences in the engines cylinder. that old problem, the deeply-buried condenser These were on older equipment which hadcomplete tune upsthat wentto the field and didn't work more than a hand full or two of times and then they would begin to start hard, no start or run for a short time and shut off then not restart. We would therefore strongly advise against ever trying to make a magneto strike a spark across a gap of anything in excess of 7.5 mm in fresh air. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. Gift Article. With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. Dansk i'm an asshole, you probably shouldn't listen to me. With twin- or multi-cylinder magnetos, and some single-cylinder magnetos, the brass is a segment, rather than a complete ring, and you may need to rotate the armature in order to be able to see it. From time to time we have complete in the translations. Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. Magnetometer for measuring magnetic flux density at the centre of the armature cavity Measurement before remagnetisation Remagnetiser . Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. He got it and thought the ring the points rides in came out and just needed pushed in. Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. Any suggestions? Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % Nederlandse found elsewhere on the internet or in the 2. classic owners. With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). Deutsch wish to 'demystify and simplify' wherever we can, so By With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. We also provide Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. In the type known as a shuttle magneto, the engine rotates a coil of wire between the poles of a magnet. I have tried both Champion and NGK plugs. The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. Check that the felt pad in the end of the screw holding together the two blocks of the points assembly is present and good, and soak it in oil. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. sequences illustrating the importance of Svensk The likely culprits are: Set the timing of the ignition in accordance with the machines handbook. quality are also available, of the correct insulators; and timing discs. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Thanks again. English If it is significantly higher, there is a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. If possible, get somebody to help. In the right direction (clockwise, looking at the points) and a fairly healthy looking spark should jump the gap from one ht at a time, lead to casing. If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. All rewound units now have modern condensers and enameled wire. In this series of pages, well take you through the main things. As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. Remove two nuts and funny-looking-long-thing that attaches the mag to the engine Check the plug-wires at the end that goes into the mag .and remove sparkplug-cap and make sure you have a good connection (maybe you'll want to cut of a bit and re-atttach) Remove the two high-tension pick-ups from the mag 0000003086 00000 n Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. NEW Fantastic! This could be because: the brush isnt projecting far enough to touch the slip ring, so check that as best you can. item. For example, in the Lucas K1F and K2F, the earth brush is located on top inboard of the main mounting flange. Check the state of the tappet and replace if necessary. Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. This was examined earlier. If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. Rotate the armature and check that the contact-breaker assembly does not foul its housing. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might not I was hoping that some of the experts might help me with a magneto problem. Dual plugs provide both redundancy should a magneto fail, and better engine performance (through enhanced combustion). grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip I'd need to install it in the chassis or rig up something to do that. trailer These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. i have had 3 done here by ed strain that included rebuild with remagnatized body for a little more than $200.00. Franaise JRC Engineering Inc. 3110 Indian Ave Unit 1E, Perris, CA, 92571. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) further selection that can be reconditioned on Norsk All Posts: 34. The last of these possible reasons is very often the cause. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. The irony here is that usually these magnetos fail to spark. If the magneto wont produce a spark across a 6 mm (or 4 mm) gap at leisurely kicking speeds, and if youve satisfied yourself with all the other checks described earlier, then it probably needs a more complete overhaul. Don't flame, hate, spam. startxref ring. Parts lists and workshop instructions, not Measure the resistance with the two probes of your multi-meter shorted together. This causes the electromagnetic field in the primary coil to collapse rapidly. So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. It may not display this or other websites correctly. This was diagnosed as the cam ring not being properly timed to the magnetic poles. Nous It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. Alnico, the material most often used to fabricate early magnets has a tendency to lose its induced magnetic field over time due to various causes. IMPORTANT. The ratio of turns in the secondary winding to the number of turns in the primary winding, is called the turns ratio. and overhauls. I forgot about this. 0000002409 00000 n I would definitely try another condenser if it were me. ZK~!c. Under construction, so far showing video If your multimeter can measure capacitance, the reading should be within 10% of: 150 nF (0.15 uF) for the C01, C02, C03, C05 and CU/150 EasyCaps; 220 nF (0.22 uF) for the C06, C07 and CU/220 EasyCaps. I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline) engine that came on a trolley with an Aerograph air compressor. Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. We anglais, votre convenance. I know a great starting engine will fire a plug with 3/16" gap when external of a cylinder. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. You can check the latter by removing the pick-up(s), rotating the armature in the proper direction until the points are just opening, and checking that the brass is visible directly underneath the pick-up hole (or one of the pick-up holes) in the magneto body. many ignition systems, focusing especially on Pick-up brushes of the highest 0000002847 00000 n The reading should be between 0.5 and 0.7 ohms greater than your first reading. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. but enjoy doing it, with confidence, relying on the To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. 0 fitted, the EasyCap becomes a routine service Norsk tour of some of our specialised workshop <]>> Voltage across the primary coil results in a proportional voltage being induced across the secondary winding of the coil. part-exchange. As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. degrade with age. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. 0000001015 00000 n I did run the rpm up with my lathe to 1,000 rpm & it easily jumped 5/8", so were good there, SMOKSTAK is a Registered Trade Mark in the U.S. Espaol Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. pouvons vous aider soit en franais, soit en Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. I got it back, spun it, sparked. [3] The capacitor's function is similar to that of a snubber as found in a flyback converter. Likes: 260. scotland. We provide If necessary, dress the points on a fine stone. Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. 0000005952 00000 n (Japanese) And a f-ing video! 82 0 obj<> endobj We are unfortunately not able to offer At any one time, we reckon to Carefully check for any cracks or pin-holes in the pick-up. Check the state of the heel of the moving-point assembly. That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. xref There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. A really nice one will jump 1/2"or better. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). A Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any errors https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=294172&stc=1&d=1508717862. We also have kits for more unusual magnetos, such as the BTH, ML, Magnetos France, Morel, Lucas wader, Lucas KVF, etc., and for cars. Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. Thanks. Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. Or what else could be causing this? books. instruments available for immediate use, and a asked questions, some of which isn't to be When we undertake the renovation of these magnetos, we examine the following:-. Stored in the dry. Check for any dirty marks on the paper. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on one of the cam lobes. With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. information as we can about the electrical equipment Come join the discussion about performance, restorations, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! When inserting the brushes; you may have to do. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. 0000009971 00000 n After 1 hour or so the bike can be started again, but the ignition fails again after riding about 20 miles - not a pleasent way to ride! It uses a Bosch ZA4 magneto (rebuilt about 10 years back) which produces a nice blue spark in the plugs when they are out of the engine. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) I would also welcome information on some of the things shown in the video such as the handles on the trolley.
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